No, i can’t see. But i think that 400 meters still bad.
You need to learn about radio.
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You’ll have terrible results with the -H (no marking) module at 433MHz as Bernd explained. The radio in the STM32WLE5 is happy to work 150-960Mhz, but the external RF matching network inside the module from the chip to the antenna connector will perform very poorly. I would expect very low output power (this might damage the chip, too).
My experience with various antennas also suggests the antenna could be poor. Are you operating the mote from inside a car? I suggest using a mag-mount antenna on the top of the car.
Your firmware can test port PB12 to determine if you have a -H or -L module - from the RAK3172 datasheet “PB12 I/O 10 kΩ internally pulled-up for high freq variant or pulled-down for low freq variant”
I have a couple hundred RAK3172-H based motes in the field and they perform very well at US915 and AU915 (I’m using STM32WL Cube FW on mine but I expect RUI3 works well, too).
Dana
Lamarr, Inc.
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Thank you very much for your answer.
I was testing inside the car but this was just for testing. There will be no such implementation in my use case. Anyway, thank you for your advice.
I got the same result when I used 868 MHz and antenna suitable for the frequency. The maximum range I could reach was 400 meters. I still don’t understand this.
If you get the same bad results on 868 and 433 MHz, I strongly recommend to test with antennas that are proven to be made for these frequencies. And as multiple time mentioned, forget about 433 MHz. The module you have is not made to work properly with this frequency
Depending on the variant of the RAK3172 you bought, the Breakout Board and the Evaluation Board are coming with antennas that are made for 868 MHz frequencies. In this case I would test first with the supplied antennas.
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It’s not about radio. As you can see;
So what’s now? @vincen has few kilometers with 2.3 dB antenna. @bobbeers Is it about knowing radio, or about something else??
As @beegee told you and me too, use a proper antenna designed for 868Mhz (not an Aliexpress antenna but a RakWireless one or an other known quality manufacturer !) and test it this way (and not being in a car) and for both sides use proper antennas.
Are you sure you snapped also properly the cable on the antenna connector of module RAK3172 ? as these connectors are very fragile and it’s quite easy to destroy them or make a bad connection !
Thanks for you reply.
For example, can you explain me your test conditions? I mean, your TX and RX modules on line of sight each other? Or there are obstacles between them?
sure it’s quite simple, both modules have a 2.3dBi antenna designed for 868 (I’m in Europe) and they can talk each other without problem on few kilometers at line of sight, less if obstacles but then it’ll be strongly influenced by placement and height from ground.
If I use the RAK3172 in Lorawan mode with same antenna I can reach gw at 50kms at line of sight.
For sure you should reach few kilometers easily if you are in line of sight !
May you share a clear picture of your hardware configuration ?
Important precision: I use the RAK3172 with all defaults settings for Lora, I didn’t tweak anything !
Hi @whydont ,
When you shared that buildings between the two modules, there are various external variables to determine how many meters it can go. Number of walls, type of material, physical thickness, etc.
Although LoRa = Long Range, couple of walls will surely attenuate the signals. Added the fact that Antenna can be poor, losses on connector/cable, etc. LoRa signals can go as short as 100meters.
In my opinion, really hard to say exact values unless real life measurements is done on the actual deployment site/area.
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I would like to add some experience to this thread.
The company I am working on has been using both semtech’s IC directly and the RAK module. In urban area, especially with highrise, it is normal to get <500 meter with LoRa/LoRaWAN.
RF is not magic, there are many factor that affect the range, it is a very hard topic and usually can only be answer with data, like RSSI and SNR value, photo of setup, RF noise, antenna quality, etc.
There is no way to tell an exact range, a physical test, field test that is, is the best way to know the answer. Consider buying the RAK Field Tester.
I understand. Thanks.
I’ve done range tests with RAK3172. At one point, I think it was last year, there was a client in the Philippines who had issues with range, similar to yours. I set up a test between 2 RAK3172, at 915 MHz, and PCB antennas. I achieved 2.x km (I could, probably, have done better, but 2 km was enough). I live in Hong Kong, in a very urban environment (think lots of skyscrapers, 35 to 55 floors).
When I use a better antenna on both (Blade antenna, usually), I get 6.5 to 7.5 km. And when I go all out, and use a Yagi at home, and a Blade on the one I am carrying, 10 km is easy enough.
So you are probably doing something wrong, but what…? As @beegee mentioned, you can’t use a device with an RF path for 800-900 at low frequencies. So you have to stay at either 868+, 915+ or 923+ depending on where you are. And you need to use a proper antenna. I have a large collection of antennas, and you wouldn’t believe the crap that can get sold sometimes. The first thing I do when I receive antennas is test them with my NanoVNA – I get many surprises between the stated frequency and the frequency it would be best used at, if any. Bottom line, get a better antenna. But not that the PCB antennas sold by RAK with the modules work well enough – as I said, 2.x km. Keep in mind they are directional, so you should orient the antenna towards the other device.
After that, maybe we should look at the code you are using. Many things can go wrong.
I have done range tests with another (PCB Antenna) antenna. I set my RAK3172 modules at 868 MHz. Then I achieved 900 meters range.
I don’t live in very urban area. There is no skyscrapers. So, i must get at least 2 km range, right?
Which antennas are directional, PCB antennas?
yep but avoid to use them if you want devices with real range of transmission, these antennas are really bad and should only be used in tiny device due to lack of space ! You should try with antennas like these: Blade Antenna for Indoor LoRa Device – RAKwireless Store
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I understand, thanks much.
Sure, or even better. It will however depend on the elevation – if both devices are at ground level there still may be too many obstacles.
Which antennas are directional, PCB antennas?
Yes indeed. The old ones (green) were not very good. The new ones, black, work very well. I achieved 2.x km with the black PCB antennas.
What are your LoRa settings?
I can’t use directional antennas on my project. Now, i’m looking for good quality omnidirectional blade antennas.
Here it is:
uint16_t sf = 12, bw = 0, cr = 0, preamble = 8, txPower = 22;
double myFreq = 868000000;
The blade antennas that RAK sell work well – I am taking some with me today on a trip to Taipei for a quick test, both in EU868 and AS923. A RAK11310 running MicroPython and a RAK3272S running the AT firmware, driven by my Mac (which runs Python code I wrote for this purpose).
I don’t see anything wrong with your settings – mine are a little more elaborate but basically the same. You should be able to get some good distances.
Thanks for reply.
I want to produce an omnidirectional antenna with copper wire myself. Do you think I can get a similar range to RAK’s blade antennas with this antenna?